Traveller-digest      Saturday, June 21 1997      Volume 1997 : Number 1455



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Analysing Marc's numbers
Re: T4.1 tasks
Minimum TL for...
Re: Yet more task stuff.
Re: A Plea to Marc Miller
A Task Idea (Long)
Vargr Tech
Re: Task System Revision Poll Results So Far II
'World Building'
Re:  T4.1 Char Gen Checklist
Re: Birthdays
Re: T4 Task Rationale
Tasks (again), a solution.
Re: a plea to Marc Miller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 03:52:04 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Analysing Marc's numbers

On 06/21/97 at 12:45 AM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

>In a message dated 97-06-20 21:40:58 EDT, you write:

><< 
> I too think that skills should be more heavily weighted in task
>resolution
> than attributes.  I would also like to see the disappearance of the
> half-die.
> 
>  >>


Marc, I don't have probability tables for 2.5 die handy, so I'm going to
convert your percentages to 3d6, Formidable tasks, which I *do* have
sitting in front of me.

>For a <Formidable> task, with Characteristic-N and a default Skill (which
>most clearly points out the benefit of an unskilled person), the chance of
>an unskilled person succeeding is

    I assume you are rounding down for the middle two.  I also added Ken's
    KB1.1, and KB2.0 for comparison, and because KB2.0 uses 4d6 for
    Formidable tasks I'll use 4d for that column.
    
                                             KB1.1      KB2.0    >T41
Char/2,u           Char/2     Char/3    Char/2,u   Char >N=5  .5%    Group
1    N=5  0%    N=5  0%   N=5  .5%   N=5  .4% >N=7   2%               N=7
.5%    N=7  0%   N=7   2%   N=7   3% >N=9   5%               N=9  2%    N=9
.5%   N=9   5%   N=9  10%


>The first level of skill Skill-1 provides an increased percentage chance
>of success of
                                          KB1.1           KB2.0   
 T41 Char+1           Char/2+1  Char/3+1  Char/2,u+(1*2)  Char+(1*3) >N=5  
9%    Group 2  N=5 .5%   N=5  0%   N=5   5%        N=5   5% >N=7  26%            
N=7  2%   N=7 .5%   N=7   9%        N=7  16%
>N=9  50%             N=9  5%   N=9  2%   N=9  16%        N=9  34%

>Are you arguing that an unskilled person (who is allowed to use the
>default skill with half Characteristic) shouldn't have the chances shown
>in Group 1?

With it now being a Formidable task, I'd say T41's and both KB's are at
about the correct success rate.  KB2 might be a *little* high, but it's
acceptable to me.

>Are you arguing that percentage chances shown in Group 2 are not a
>substantial benefit for the person who has Skill-1?

That's begging the question, Marc.  Of course the benefit is substantial
because the benefit isn't *1* for T41 or KB2, it is 3 in the case of N=5, 4
in the case of N=7, and 5 in the case of N=9.  I would even argue that T41
is *too* generous in its increase.  I think the rate of increase by KB2 is
best here.

Let's look at the steps from Skill 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. 

                                             KB1.1           KB2.0     
 T41 Char+2            Char/2+2  Char/3+2   Char/2,u+(2*2)  Char+(2*3)
 N=5  16%    Group 3   N=5  2%   N=5 .5%    N=5  16%        N=5  24%  
 N=7  38%              N=7  5%   N=7  2%    N=7  26%        N=7  44%  
 N=9  63%              N=9  9%   N=9  5%    N=9  38%        N=9  66%  

                                            KB1.1           KB2.0     
 T41 Char+3            Char/2+3  Char/3+3   Char/2,u+(3*2)  Char+(3*3)
 N=5  26%    Group 4   N=5  5%   N=5  2%    N=5  38%        N=5  56%  
 N=7  50%              N=7  9%   N=7  5%    N=7  50%        N=7  76%  
 N=9  74%              N=9 16%   N=9  9%    N=9  63%        N=9  90%  

>Are you arguing that (in Group 2) that if this is Dex, that better Dex
>shouldn't help out someone with the skill?

I'm not.  I would just like the ratio between the portion coming from Dex
and the portion coming from Skill to close faster than T41.  I, personally,
think the closing rate should be between that of T41 and KB2.

>Or are you arguing that Skill-1 should be the same regardless of
>Characteristic?

My argument is that a skill-1 really *should* differ due to differing
Characteristic values, but that is unlikely to be directly addressed.

>Or are you arguing that skill percentages should rise at 10% per level?

Certainly, not.  Are you?  ;-> T41's do appear to be progressing about
about 10% per level once you get past the initial boost. ;->

>Or are you arguing that task resolution is too easy?

The original task system certainly was, that's why I went to more dice. T41
might actually be too hard on Staggering and Impossible tasks.  KB2, is a
*little* too easy on Impossible tasks, but works well in the middle where
most tasks will be.



Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 05:16:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: CardSharks@aol.com
Subject: Re: T4.1 tasks

In a message dated 97-06-20 21:41:04 EDT, you write:

<< 
 I agree with Kenneth and the other posters - I am increasingly uneasy about
 the dominance of attributes in the task roll. Try running a marine with a
 dex <6 and you'll see what I mean! Skills should be a way to counteract
 natural inabilities in an area.
 
>>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 09:06:00 GMT 
From: s.johnson107@genie.com
Subject: Minimum TL for...

    Question for the engineers on the list.  What's the absolute minimum level
of technology required to get airships able to carry a crew and some cargo into
the air?  I'm thinking of putting together an adventure on a world where below
a certain altitude the oxygen toxicity kills you.  This would restrict the
population to the mountain tops and I want to make the tech level as low as
possible.
    So what's required to get an airship off the ground and keep it moving
through the air?  Thoughts, comments, suggestions and References all welcome!

Stephen

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 02:43:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Yet more task stuff.

"Joseph E. Walsh" <ransom@connect.iconnect.net> write:

>Given absolute power over all things Traveller, though, I'd search for
>something even better.  But the down side to that is making the Game
>Screen, Pocket Empires, and Psionic Institutes confusing as heck to 
>those who purchase T4.1. 

>I don't see a good way out at this point.  

I do!  

If T4.1 uses KB 1.1 then the number of dice being rolled is just the same
as in the system used in the Game Screen.  The *only* difference between
the two systems is that the KB 1.1 uses 1/2 Stat + 2*Skill instead of Stat
+ Skill.  I'd still prefer the MT, but KB 1.1 may be the best option given
the current situation. 

I still have problems about Impossible task being too easy in KB1.1, but
the situation is *far* worse in KB 2.0 and no better in the current
system.  MT is the *only* system for Traveller where Impossible tasks are
actually unlikely for highly skilled PCs...(If you assume a Skill 5, Stat
11 PC [good, but not *that* rare], in MT they have a 1 in 36 chance, in KB
1.1 they have arround a 40% chance, and in KB 2.0 they have around a 70%
chance (which in this respect makes KB 2.0 notably *worse* than the
current system). 


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 03:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: A Plea to Marc Miller

CardSharks@aol.com wrote:

>The first level of skill Skill-1 provides an increased percentage chance 
>of success of

>N=5  17%    Group 2       
>N=7  39%                       
>N=9  62%                       

>Are you arguing that an unskilled person (who is allowed to use the default
>skill with half Characteristic) shouldn't have the chances shown in 
Group 1?

No

>Are you arguing that percentage chances shown in Group 2 are not a
>substantial benefit for the person who has Skill-1?

No

>Are you arguing that (in Group 2) that if this is Dex, that better Dex
>shouldn't help out someone with the skill?

I'm arguing that it should not help out *as* much as it does.  With skill
level 1 the difference between a 5 stat and a 9 stat is between 17% (ie
almost no chance of success) and 62% (ie a high chance of success).  Heck
a *minor* difference in stats, between a 7 and a 9 (basically between
someone average and someone *slightly* above average) means that the two
characters have a 23% difference in their chances of success.  

At this point, why bother with more than skill level 1 with anything? Why
not just send your PC to college, get an Edu of B and then roll on the
Physical Development table until you have an 11 Dex and not worry about
having any Edu or Dex skills over 1?  Such a PC would have a 12 in *all*
Edu & Dex skills with only 1 skill level.  Meanwhile, someone with an 8 (a
good, above average, stat) would only have a total of 11 (ie not as good)
if they took 3 levels in a skill.  This type of system encourages
munchkins and does not make sense. 

>Or are you arguing that Skill-1 should be the same regardless of
>Characteristic?

No, only that they should be *less* influenced by characteristics

>Or are you arguing that skill percentages should rise at 10% per level?

No

>Or are you arguing that task resolution is too easy?

Well, that to.  Task resolution is too easy for the most difficult tasks, 
but that's not the point if this argument.


- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 05:02:06 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: A Task Idea (Long)

Everybody, 

I created CTS as a compromise proposal between T41 and KB2 for folks to
look at.  It doubles skill values, while using all of the
characteristic.  This goes a long way toward closing the gap between stat
and skill.  Look at the numbers and see what you think.  It also uses whole
dice as for the following task difficulties:

1d6 Easy
2d6 Average
3d6 Difficult
4d6 Formidable
5d6 Staggering
6d6 Hopeless (Impossible if you must)

 Average Tasks
 Skill-0
   
   T41  Char/2,u  2d6     CTS  Char/2,u  2d6      KB2  Char/2,u  2d6    
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target  Percent    Char Target  Percent  
   --------------------   --------------------    --------------------  
    2      1       0%      2      1       0%       2      1       0%    
    4      2       3%      4      2       3%       4      2       3%    
    5      3       8%      5      3       8%       5      3       8%    
    7      4      17%      7      4      17%       7      4      17%    
    9      5      28%      9      5      28%       9      5      28%    
   12      6      42%     12      6      42%      12      6      42%    
                                                                        
 Skill-1                                                                
   T41  Char+1    2d6     CTS  Char+(1*2)  2d6    CTS  Char+(1*3)  2d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      3       8%      2      4       17%      2      5       28%   
    4      5      28%      4      6       42%      4      7       58%   
    5      6      42%      5      7       58%      5      8       72%   
    7      8      72%      7      9       83%      7     10       92%   
    9     10      92%      9     11       97%      9     12      100%   
   12     13     100%     12     14      100%     12     15      100%   
                                                                        
 Skill-2                                                                
   T41  Char+2    2d6     CTS  Char+(2*2)  2d6    CTS  Char+(2*3)  2d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      4      17%      2      6       42%      2      8       72%   
    4      6      42%      4      8       72%      4     10       92%   
    5      7      58%      5      9       83%      5     11       97%   
    7      9      83%      7     11       97%      7     13      100%   
    9     11      97%      9     13      100%      9     15      100%   
   12     14     100%     12     16      100%     12     18      100%   
                                                                        
 Skill-3                                                                
   T41  Char+3    2d6     CTS  Char+(3*2)  2d6    CTS  Char+(3*3)  2d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      5      28%      2      8       72%      2     11       97%   
    4      7      58%      4     10       92%      4     13      100%   
    5      8      72%      5     11       97%      5     14      100%   
    7     10      92%      7     13      100%      7     16      100%   
    9     12     100%      9     15      100%      9     18      100%   
   12     15     100%     12     18      100%     12     21      100%   
                                                                        
 Skill-4                                                                
   T41  Char+4    2d6     CTS  Char+(4*2)  2d6    CTS  Char+(4*3)  2d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      6      42%      2     10       92%      2     14      100%   
    4      8      72%      4     12      100%      4     16      100%   
    5      9      83%      5     13      100%      5     17      100%   
    7     11      97%      7     15      100%      7     19      100%   
    9     13     100%      9     17      100%      9     21      100%   
   12     16     100%     12     20      100%     12     24      100%   
                                                                        
                                                                        
 Formidable Tasks                                                       
 Skill-0                                                                
                                                                        
   T41  Char/2,u  3d6     CTS  Char/2,u  4d6      CTS  Char/2,u  4d6    
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target  Percent    Char Target  Percent  
   --------------------   --------------------    --------------------  
    2      1       0%      2      1       0%       2      1       0%    
    4      2       0%      4      2       0%       4      2       0%    
    5      3      .5%      5      3      .5%       5      3      .5%    
    7      4       2%      7      4       2%       7      4       2%    
    9      5       5%      9      5       5%       9      5       5%    
   12      6       9%     12      6       9%      12      6       9%    
                                                                        
 Skill-1                                                                
   T41  Char+1    3d6     CTS  Char+(1*2)  4d6    CTS  Char+(1*3)  4d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      3      .5%      2      4       .1%      2      5       .4%   
    4      5       5%      4      6        1%      4      7        3%   
    5      6       9%      5      7        3%      5      8        5%   
    7      8      26%      7      9       10%      7     10       16%   
    9     10      50%      9     11       24%      9     12       34%   
   12     13      84%     12     14       56%     12     15       66%   
                                                                        
 Skill-2                                                                
   T41  Char+2    3d6     CTS  Char+(2*2)  4d6    CTS  Char+(2*3)  4d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      4       2%      2      6        1%      2      8        5%   
    4      6       9%      4      8        5%      4     10       16%   
    5      7      16%      5      9       10%      5     11       24%   
    7      9      38%      7     11       24%      7     13       44%   
    9     11      63%      9     13       44%      9     15       66%   
   12     14      91%     12     16       76%     12     18       90%   
                                                                        
 Skill-3                                                                
   T41  Char+3    3d6     CTS  Char+(3*2)  4d6    CTS  Char+(3*3)  4d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      5       5%      2      8        5%      2     11       24%   
    4      7      16%      4     10       16%      4     13       44%   
    5      8      26%      5     11       24%      5     14       56%   
    7     10      50%      7     13       44%      7     16       76%   
    9     12      74%      9     15       66%      9     18       90%   
   12     15      95%     12     18       90%     12     21       99%   
                                                                        
 Skill-4                                                                
   T41  Char+4    3d6     CTS  Char+(4*2)  4d6    CTS  Char+(4*3)  4d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      6       9%      2     10       16%      2     14       56%   
    4      8      26%      4     12       34%      4     16       76%   
    5      9      38%      5     13       44%      5     17       84%   
    7     11      63%      7     15       66%      7     19       95%   
    9     13      84%      9     17       84%      9     21       99%   
   12     16      98%     12     20       97%     12     24      100%   
                                                                        
 Staggering Tasks                                                       
 Skill-0                                                                
                                                                        
   T41  Char/2,u  4d6     CTS  Char/2,u  5d6      CTS  Char/2,u  5d6    
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target  Percent    Char Target  Percent  
   --------------------   --------------------    --------------------  
    2      1       0%      2      1       0%       2      1       0%    
    4      2       0%      4      2       0%       4      2       0%    
    5      3       0%      5      3       0%       5      3       0%    
    7      4      .1%      7      4      .1%       7      4      .1%    
    9      5      .4%      9      5      .4%       9      5      .4%    
   12      6       1%     12      6       1%      12      6       1%    
                                                                        
 Skill-1                                                                
   T41  Char+1    4d6     CTS  Char+(1*2)  5d6    CTS  Char+(1*3)  5d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      3       0%      2      4        0%      2      5       .0%   
    4      5      .4%      4      6       .1%      4      7       .3%   
    5      6       1%      5      7       .3%      5      8        1%   
    7      8       3%      7      9        2%      7     10        3%   
    9     10      10%      9     11        6%      9     12       10%   
   12     13      34%     12     14       22%     12     15       31%   
                                                                        
 Skill-2                                                                
   T41  Char+2    4d6     CTS  Char+(2*2)  5d6    CTS  Char+(2*3)  5d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      4      .1%      2      6       .1%      2      8        1%   
    4      6       1%      4      8        1%      4     10        3%   
    5      7       3%      5      9        2%      5     11        6%   
    7      9      10%      7     11        6%      7     13       15%   
    9     11      24%      9     13       15%      9     15       31%   
   12     14      56%     12     16       40%     12     18       60%   
                                                                        
 Skill-3                                                                
   T41  Char+3    4d6     CTS  Char+(3*2)  5d6    CTS  Char+(3*3)  5d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      5      .4%      2      8        1%      2     11        6%   
    4      7       3%      4     10        3%      4     13       15%   
    5      8       5%      5     11        6%      5     14       22%   
    7     10      16%      7     13       15%      7     16       40%   
    9     12      34%      9     15       31%      9     18       60%   
   12     15      66%     12     18       60%     12     21       85%   
                                                                        
 Skill-4                                                                
   T41  Char+4    4d6     CTS  Char+(4*2)  5d6    CTS  Char+(4*3)  5d6  
   Char Target  Percent   Char Target    Percent  Char Target    Percent
   --------------------   ----------------------  ----------------------
    2      6       1%      2     10        3%      2     14       22%   
    4      8       5%      4     12       10%      4     16       40%   
    5      9      10%      5     13       15%      5     17       50%   
    7     11      24%      7     15       31%      7     19       69%   
    9     13      44%      9     17       50%      9     21       85%   
   12     16      76%     12     20       78%     12     24       97%   
 
Ok, which numbers do you like better?


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:17:45 +0100
From: Simon Turner <madgamer@mistral.co.uk>
Subject: Vargr Tech

Just a quick question until the Aliens Hardbound appears. Im just begining a
M0 campaign in the Antares/Lishun sectors, <Boy, I love the Jag-II-Jagd> and
need a few Vargr corsairs to spice up proceedings. What tech level have the
Vargr achieved? Have the Vargr also suffered the effects of the long night? 
Apart from not having fusion+ do some Vargr have the technological edge?

Cheers

S.T.

- ----------------------------------------------------------
Simon W. Turner     madgamer@mistral.co.uk

"Do not fear going foward slowly, fear only to stand still"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 11:11:21 -0000
From: Jason Davies <obiwan@thenet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Task System Revision Poll Results So Far II

T>1 Most Important
T>5 Least Important
T>0 Don't Care

T>============================================================= 
T>1. T4 is weighted too heavily against stats.  Skills have a minor part in
a
T>character's success at a task throw.  These should be equally weighted.
T>=============================================================
T>2. Spectacular Success and Spectacular Failure are hard to do at easy and
T>average, and easier at harder levels.
T>=============================================================
T>3.  It should be harder to roll SS the harder a task becomes.
T>=============================================================
T>4.  Replace SS with SF in 3.
T>=============================================================
T>5. I don't like the half-die. Get rid of it.
T>=============================================================

1.     1
2.     2
3.     0
4.     0
5.     3

Jason
- -- 
######################################################################
Jason Davies (obiwan@thenet.co.uk)   Amiga 1200, 060 50 MHz, 540 Mb HD
http://www.thenet.co.uk/~obiwan/      CD-ROMx2, Zip Drive, SupraFax288
######################################################################
"Remember, the Amiga will be with you.. always" - Obi-Wan, Jedi Knight

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:27:19 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: 'World Building'

Douglas Berry recently recommended:

"World Building" by Stephen L Gillet (Writer's Digest Books, Ohio, ISBN
0-89879-707-1 $16.99US, =A312.99UK)

which is a text which provides a general overview on how planets are
formed, and also goes into details on stars etc.  It also gives a variety
of equations and example calculations to support 'world building'. Now, I
can't say how it compares to the WBH as I don't own that, but it is a very
welcome companion to Bk6 and the WTH. You don't need an excessive maths
ability to use it (no worse than High Guard...) and I think that it would
be a welcome addition to most Traveller GMs shelves, whether Gearhead or
not. Especially as it concentrates on giving you an understanding of the
little, vivid details that you can hang a story on. IMO, of course.

(I suppose this is a bit of a 'me too', but I prefer to see a selection of
reviews on things.)

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"You may not recall the moment you asked me, but your
invitation was clear. You'll pretend you never met me,
but it's far too late now I'm here." Hogarth/Helmer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:23:31 +1200
From: Andrew Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re:  T4.1 Char Gen Checklist

>Date: Sat, 21 Jun 97 02:26:31 -0500
>From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
>Subject: Re: T4.1 Char Gen Checklist

>On 06/21/97 at 01:24 AM,  CardSharks@aol.com said:

>>A continuing problem is that tasks get abbreviated down to rolling against
>>Characteristics +Skill. What happened to modifiers... weather, headaches,
>>tools, really good tools, equipment, teamwork, rehearsal, etc? I have Edu
>>and Computer but I'm using a 286 and AOL 1.02. What chance of success do I
>>have regardless of whether I am a grad student? Or conversely, isn't the
>>problem that anyone who can will pursue an advanced education if they get
>>a chance?

>The way the game stands now, and per your proposal, I'd expect anyone who
>could to get an advanced education. Wouldn't you?  

>OTOH, for "gaming purposes" there should be alternative roads to the same
>level of Target Numbers (Stat and Skill) that don't lead through Graduate
>School. In many cases the alternative roads *should* take longer, but (and
>here's were we seem to disagree) they shouldn't take 4 or 5 years longer
>per skill.  Phil PhD spends 2 terms going through college and grad school,
>entering some career 8 years after Andy Average, in those 8 years Andy has
>earned 8 skills, but so has Phil and Phil has boosted his EDU to 12 far
>above the natural 7 both he and Andy started with. Andy is at 2 or 3 in
>several useful skills, but Phil picks up 1's in Andy's best areas during
>the next term and outclasses Andy everywhere!  Even if you argue that this
>is realistic (I don't), it isn't "game friendly."

One possible solution to this is to remove the Edu bonus from advanced
education. Now this seems radical, but its not too unrealistic actually. If
Edu is indicative of knowledge, then thats not what you generally learn
in collage. What you learn in collage is how to aquire knowledge, not
the knowledge (outside the specific fields you study) itself. Thus a
collage educated character can use the 'skills' gained at collage to mimic
higher skill levels by research (if given time), but they will not be able
to automatically function at higher skill levels just by benefit of higher
education. E.G. A trained lawyer can function as a historian if given
sufficent time (they have the skills to study and research); however
they can not automatically do so since they just don't have the specific
knowledge that a trained historian does at their fingertips. OR if I am
sick I will go and see a doctor, not a biology professor who's done a
first aid course.

This could be represented by removing the Edu bonus of advanced
education and replacing it with automatic reseach skill. This naturally
would require decoupling Edu with the level of academic insitution
attended, but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. As I see it, Edu is
measuring the characters level of general knowledge and that is
independent of schooling.

  Andrew etc.
    a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz

****************************************************************************
The longest distance between two points is with children.
****************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 04:08:12 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Birthdays

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote
> 
> On 06/20/97 at 03:01 PM,  Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> said:
> 
> > Here's one that's a bit more complex, but gives a *flatter* distribution:
> >>
> >> roll dice 3 times:
> >> 1st  (1d6-1) * 61    (0,61,122,183,244,305)
> >> 2nd  (1d6-1) * 10    (0,10,20,30,40,50)
> >> 3rd  2d6-1           (1-11)
> >>
> 
> Can I ask an impertinent question?
> 
> Why? <g>
> 
> Why, do you need a formula or even a table to come up with a birthday? If
> it's manual, just say.."Pick a number between 1 and 366 for your PC's date
> of birth.", and if it's computerized, like a spreadsheet or program, just
> have the computer pick a pseudo-random number from 1 to 366.
> 
> Eris

If you let people pick their birthdays this will only encourage
munchkinism as every player says "Today is my birthday, I was just
discharged from the service this morning." thus pushing back the day
they have to roll their aging saves by a few months.

I think that a player charecters birthday should not be random but
should have usually occurred shortly before the start of the campaign. 
If you have to be 18 to start a career (this seems to be Imperial law
(TNE used 17)) then many people are going to have joined up as soon as
they could, on their birthday.  Therefore they will finish there 4 year
terms about the time of their birthday.  Since many or most campaigns
start shortly after the PC's leave their old jobs they should have been
discharged fairly recently.

The system I use when I generate charecters is to roll 1d6 * 1d6 * 1d6
for the number of days ago the charecters birthday was at the start of
the campaign (although you may wish to adjust this for cold sleep weeks
now that they are in the system).  Using this system charecters
birthdays (which will have a high correlation with their term start/end
dates) will have occured an average of 43 days ago but can range from 1
to 216 days ago.  This will represent a reality in which many people
joined up shortly after reaching the age of maturity, served terms of
very close to exactly four years, and mustered out not very long ago.

If you randomly determine birthday this means that of two identical 38
year old veterans 1 may be 38 years and 0 days old while another is 38
years and 364 days old.  This is neither plausible nor fair to the
player of the older charecter, who will have to make aging rolls sooner.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:21:32 -0900
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: T4 Task Rationale

At 08:43 PM 20/06/97 -0500, you wrote:
 
>Skills are one of the largest factor differentiating characters in
>Traveller.  To allow stats to complete dominate turns the game into D&D in
>space, with STR-class chars instead of fighters, INT-class chars instead of
>mages, etc.

Bingo! That's the problem in a nutshell... In T4 the skills are not what
makes the character, it's the stats they possess. Yet the character
generation system seems to be skill oriented. 
If the skill tables were roughly split 50/50 between skill increases and
stat increases, it would make more sense, especially because the task
system weights both equally during roleplay.
**Please Note** that I am not advocating this. Traveller to me has always
been a "skill" oriented system, with stats only providing minimal support.
This is the type of system I would like to see adopted.

Oh no... I feel a silly moment coming on....

12.2 And lo, Harry did dream of a perfect Traveller game, that was
universally accepted by all. And the TML did speak kindly of this game.

12.3 And the TML looked upon the character generation, and they did say
"look, it does fit neatly to the task system, and fills our players full of
roleplaying ideas"

12.4 And the TML looked upon the starship construction rules, and they did
say "look, it fit's exactly with our idea of the physics of the future, and
very nicely complements the starship combat system, but is easy to use!"

12.5 And the TML looked upon the details of this game, and saw that it all
fit canon perfectly, and they were greatly pleased by this.

12.6 And there was much rejoicing in the roleplaying community. And they
did play weekly, sometimes twice weekly, and there was much eating of
crisps, and drinking of soft drinks. And travellers did become fat and
imaginitive.

12.7 And then Harry did wake, and said unto his players "what's going on
then?" And his players did groan, and throw dice, chips and cola.  

..............Oh well, back to the exam study.


Harry   

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:29:26 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Tasks (again), a solution.

Joe Walsh wrote:

>Given absolute power over all things Traveller, though, I'd search for
>something even better.  But the down side to that is making the Game
>Screen, Pocket Empires, and Psionic Institutes confusing as heck to those
>who purchase T4.1.
>
>I don't see a good way out at this point.

Put the T4.1 system in the rulebook. But put KBv2 in too as a sidebar,
keeping the descriptions of task difficulty the same (eg 'average), as an
official alternative system that isn't stats dominated.

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"You may not recall the moment you asked me, but your
invitation was clear. You'll pretend you never met me,
but it's far too late now I'm here." Hogarth/Helmer

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 13:46:47 +0100
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: a plea to Marc Miller

>It should be clear that I am CONSIDERING everyting and anything,including
>abandoning tasks altogether, reverting to MT, using KB, using the posted
>system, using a hybrid, and just throwing up my hands in frustration.
>
>Marc

Two hours into reading the TML digests that came overnight I sympathise!
How you manage to read it *and* find time to work on the system I don't
know! (not to mention real life!).

Tasks are good - one of the things that  I really liked about MT. T4 is
simpler than MT, and IMO more elegant. I just have problems with the
weighting of skills against attributes (echoed here on the list), possibly
as I believe that a skill level corresponds to an absolute minimum value,
(eg MD at lvl 3) and that the range that attributes give swamps this too
much.

Fundamentally, any solution/change you come up with isn't going to please
everyone, which is why I suggested sticking with T4.1 as written and
putting in KBv2 as a sidebar alternative system.

Anyway, your posts have provoked a reaction in the TML that I've never seen
before, and the volume jump in mail is painful! I suppose it's only to be
expected as most of us here care for the game a lot.

All the best

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"You may not recall the moment you asked me, but your
invitation was clear. You'll pretend you never met me,
but it's far too late now I'm here." Hogarth/Helmer

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #1455
***********************************
